Next Steps (A proposal)

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:00 am

After spending several hours last evening trying to figure out why Gene's signature wasn't working correctly and reading all the comments so far I've come up with an idea.

First, this site configuration has tons of great things (read: mods) that are real tempting to try but will require much more knowledge that anyone here currently has and frankly nobody has asked for. Sure it would be great to do a newsletter, to write up a ton of FAQs, to setup some RSS feeds etc. but who has the time? There's a layer of administration that, for now at least, is confusing and has some problems within itself. For instance, I can't add any more administrators to the RavenNuke setup just now since that isn't working. For those keeping score at home, this board is a standard phpBB 2.0.22 wrapped in php-Nuke with script modifications from RavenNuke.

I propose we greatly simplify matters by stripping the site down to just a standard phpBB site. This would look and manage much like the last couple of sites and we do have experience with that administration. Then, we slowly add mods as requested (the attachment feature that John mentioned for instance) and as we have time to understand and document them.

The steps to do this would be pretty straight forward. First, I grab a backup of the database and test it in a simple phpBB installation(actually a friend with quite a bit of php experience would test it). If all goes well, we'd strip the site, reinstall phpBB and import the data. As I recall there would be some loss like you might have to redo your avatar but no data nor members should be lost. There would also be some down time, probably no more than a few hours one evening.

Any thoughts on this?

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:38 am

I think you should do what you feel is best for the group in the long run and do what will make it simple and easiest for you since you are the one doing the work.
I trust your judgement 100%

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:18 am

You are the one sitting on the front of the saddle. Take us down the road.

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:49 pm

Thanks for the phone call David. I think that sounds like a decent idea. It sounds like this forum software is way overkill and too complex to be worth the learning curve. I have no use for RSS feeds for a forum (yet). I use them for ebay, but I feel the front end of the forum should do just about anything we really need, like view new posts (that's just a url switch), other searches, etc. I'm getting the impression that this software package is like using page layout software to make a text file.

All I really want out of this forum is pretty much what we always had; a cache of tech docs, a bunch of knowledgable people hanging out with questions and answers pertinant to our specific bikes, and an occasional laugh... with no censorship.

John likes the attachment feature, i don't care for it particularly, but if he likes it, I don't have such a problem with it that I care all that much. What I don't like is I think it clutters up the flow of a nice exchange of ideas and just gets in the way when offsite hosted picture posting works fine.

The real issue with attachments though, if I'm not mistaken, is that the attachment feature stores the file on our server, which will make backups huge right away. Glenn might have something to say about that too, if our disk space requirements go way up.

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:25 pm

genesound wrote:

The real issue with attachments though, if I'm not mistaken, is that the attachment feature stores the file on our server, which will make backups huge right away. Glenn might have something to say about that too, if our disk space requirements go way up.

Attachments suck. Let a site that does photo hosting do it. It's just not worth the stress.

If a generic phpBB or any BB software is all you need then head in that direction. I agree that this "may" be overkill if you never foresee using the features.

I'll set up a space limit for this domain at 2GB. Which should be WAY more than you'll ever use in a lifetime of messages and files,

The reason you can't add admins is probably the way you are trying to do it, You need to turn on nukesentinal and go through there. Again, that's the watchdog that prevents the hackers from geting in.

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:44 pm

We're testing the conversion of the database from nuke to php, using a copy of course. Time permitting I should know in a day or so how successful this is.

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:45 pm

Nice, thanks Dave and Glenn.

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:56 pm

Dave sounds like you have a good plan with reasonable expectations. The last few custom boards had everything I wanted as far as features and forums and I never got into the attachments or even photo galleries but others may.

Like Ray said I trust your judgement 100% and I believe in K.I.S.S.

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:16 pm

D-Day wrote:

We're testing the conversion of the database from nuke to php, using a copy of course. Time permitting I should know in a day or so how successful this is.

If you need another DB let me know takes about 16 seconds to create one.

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:31 pm

CB1100F wrote:

D-Day wrote:

We're testing the conversion of the database from nuke to php, using a copy of course. Time permitting I should know in a day or so how successful this is.

If you need another DB let me know takes about 16 seconds to create one.

Thanks Glenn....

Conversion shouldn't be a problem. Nuke has around 110 tables compared to the 30 or so (depending on config) for phpBB and of course the naming convention is different. I might need to know the version of php-Nuke installed (7.5 I think).

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:24 am

yeah, i say screw attachments.

the only thing people would be attaching usualy are pictures and those can easily be hosted by the user on photobucket or flickr without hogging resources on the server.

rss feeds would be a welcome addon.
I need to start using more rss for the multitude of message boards and blogs that i keep track of :p

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:41 pm

1 more vote here to bag attachments - AND keep this as simple as possible for the time being.

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:12 am

simple, indeed. i have been on sites that have convoluted themselves to boredom. if it aint broke, dont fix it.

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:35 am

Well Dave, It's been a while since you started this thread. You got the nested images coding thing fixed which seems like it was just an update error somewhere along the way in the software distribution, and we've learned that the security with the Nuke Sentinel seems to be the way to go. You leaning more towards keeping this setup now? It seems to be working fine.

I'm still interested in the advanced bb code though... the reply box is much nicer...

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:41 pm

Well, it's been a couple of weeks and I must say that I've grown much more comfortable with this setup. Finding and participating in the support community as well as discovering that Dave over on vjmog and cbxworld is knowledgable and very willing to help have both gone a long way to ease my intial distrust and confusion with this forum package.

We did do a test run on converting a copy of the database back to plain vanilla phpBB2. This was completely successful but took my database expert friend many many hours of tweaking to get right. He'll still do it if we want (he likes a challenge and owes me big time) but wouldn't want to tackle it when the database grows bigger like in a year from now.

So, while the ability to go back has been proven, I'm now thinking we should stay as is. Like you said Gene, the security is apparently the best available and I'm more confident that I can pass on instructions to much of the configuration to others. I'm still asking for your patience in this last step as I address a few things on my list with the configuration as well as work on adding Advanced BBCode and making Location a registration requirement. For now, best just having one set of hands in there.

Questions? Comments? Cake?

:bunny:

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:43 pm

seeing most of what you just said, went way over my head

blindly i say ,carry on Rolling Eyes

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:56 am

D-Day wrote:

...So, while the ability to go back has been proven, I'm now thinking we should stay as is. Like you said Gene, the security is apparently the best available and I'm more confident that I can pass on instructions ... Questions? Comments? Cake?

:bunny:

I like pie Laughing

And I like the work you've done here Dave... I think we're right on schedule. Wink

And that's not to leave anybody out either, we have been through a lot collectively and separately. John, Ray, Tim, Mark and others have put serious effort into this group and I acknowledge that. But, Dave has just put a huge amount of time in recently to get us back online and now to get this site to work. I have spoken with you Dave at many different hours of day and night and, well, thanks. Wink

The key thing that Dave and I agree on is that this site needs to have several keepers of the keys to insure it's continuity. I have had a certain Custom for over 20 years and I am in a position that I will never be able to get rid of it... i just have so much time and money invested in it that there's no point in me trying to sell it, I'd just take a massive loss. I really have a vested interest in seeing this site continue in a forward thinking manner, so it will continue long after our old Hondas have found other riders.

Once we have selected several ppl to keep the eternal flame lit, passing it on as necessary, then the only issue left is the hardware host, and that's Glenn at this point. He has been very generous in getting this group off the ground several times over the years, the most recent being his server and bandwidth. With his most recent help we now have access to off site total backups, so the content from here on is guaranteed as long as we have people to do it. At some point down the road, Glenn might wish to not support internet forums, and that deserves some consideration too.

I know this is pretty far fetched, but i think it's a good way to proceed and considerations worthwhile.

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:16 am

genesound wrote:

D-Day wrote:

...So, while the ability to go back has been proven, I'm now thinking we should stay as is. Like you said Gene, the security is apparently the best available and I'm more confident that I can pass on instructions ... Questions? Comments? Cake?

:bunny:

I like pie Laughing

And I like the work you've done here Dave... I think we're right on schedule. Wink

And that's not to leave anybody out either, we have been through a lot collectively and separately. John, Ray, Tim, Mark and others have put serious effort into this group and I acknowledge that. But, Dave has just put a huge amount of time in recently though to get this site to work. I have spoken with you Dave at many different hours of day and night and, well, thanks. Wink

<blush>

Thanks so much Gene! Frankly I was spurred on as the membership (most with Locations even) grew so quickly. If it was still just a couple of us playing around, perhaps the urgency wouldn't have been so great but every day more have poured in.

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:33 am

Sorry, I was still editing that post, as i tend to... so there was more Wink

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:29 pm

I went in and changed the limit for the sigs to 800 characters and it works just fine! Yea!