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genesound
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 10:10 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Yep, good work. Smile

The power wire length to/from the relay isn't a really big deal, because the overall distance of maybe 2-3 feet is relatively short. If you're using 14 - 16 Ga wire for the wire to the coils and from the battery, there won't be appreciable voltage drop from the wire. You should be able to locate the relay where it fits and looks best, or is easiest to access and run wires. The other wires to the relay can be smaller if you like. The green wire by the signal flasher that normally goes nowhere can be used for the field coil ground side.

I do recommend using a waterproof relay, and try to locate it to keep it from getting soaked in rain or washing water. If you can't get a waterproof one, you might want to seal it with silicone caulk. Air pressure release shouldn't be a big deal for it.

Here's the link to the relay page in case you hadn't found it:

http://www.cb750c.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2740

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djpj
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Posts: 34
Location: STL, MO

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 5:16 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Update:

Wiring all made up for the coil relay. I determined that the best position is going to be by the battery. Under the tank would let the relay get too hot and it might short out. I found the operating temp range for these things is around 185*F so above the air-cooled engine is a no-go.

Wires:
Black = negative from relay, 10 gauge
Red with fuse = power to relay, 10 gauge
Brown = From one of the blk/whte trigger wires on the coil, 14 gauge
Green = From relay to coils, split to go to both coils, 14 gauge
http://imgur.com/8iC2o5F
http://imgur.com/lejepCS
http://imgur.com/w0Rpn3o

Ran the wires alongside the original wiring harness and shrink wrapped like a doomsday prepper. (Excessive? I'm the one riding the bike so I'll be the one stuck somewhere if it's not perfect)

http://imgur.com/u6RoKlH
http://imgur.com/LqPKNyD
http://imgur.com/sLecgfh
http://imgur.com/9MmcxLH
http://imgur.com/rYaLqNF
http://imgur.com/RvkOeYz

Grounded at the airbox to frame mount. Received a strong ground there so I'm happy with it. I can still loosen it a little and move the airbox to get at the carbs.

Next I connected all the wiring to my relay and the battery.. POOF. Blew the inline fuse. Then, I checked and rechecked all the connections but I was still getting a current running through the inline fuse without the bike running. I pulled the relay and tested the ohms from the power to the ground without any other wires connected. Got a positive connection reading so I guess my Amazon relay is trash. I then went up to the local auto store and got another, tested it, and we are good to go again.

http://imgur.com/ZqeII2u
http://imgur.com/9JQaKYy

Test fire was a great success. It fired up quicker than my sport bike. Tested all the plugs and they are firing evenly. Then I proceeded to shrink wrap every connection and grease up any spots that could be susceptible to some water. Once again three layers of varying sizes of shrink wrap will hold it together until Skynet comes for us all. I might even add some more to the green wires connected to the coils.

Out of focus: http://imgur.com/zez0Pas

Test fire again and it's all good. I like to test after every little stage so I don't get too far along and realize that after 5 steps my bike won't run. Now it's onto the carbs:

http://imgur.com/iKCozGW
http://imgur.com/6uKMB3T
http://imgur.com/cVN00nr

Labeled every connection and took some pictures. I broke one vent hose and I'll replace both when I reassemble. Next step is to clean those dirty dirty carbs. I'll also use this time to get some degreaser on that engine and rinse it off, after I close up all the holes of course.

Gene,

Thanks for your help. I couldn't find a waterproof one but I'm going to build a tomb of silicone caulking on it before I put the carbs back on.

PJ

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genesound
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 5:44 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Good job!

Jeeberz! Your wire is much larger than necessary, but it won't hurt anything other than a little extra weight.

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djpj
Getting up steam
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:01 am Reply with quote Back to top

Ya I wanted to use 14 gauge wire only but when it came time to start wiring I only had 16 or 10 gauge for the red and black wires. At least they are only8 inches each!

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:28 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Update

It's been a weekend of failures.

I tried the lemon juice boiling trick and either I didn't get the real lemon juice (said 0% daily amount of vitamin C) or I didn't cook it long enough (30 mins and moving it every 5 min) but it barely did a thing.

So, I polished the valve seat for carbs 1 & 2 with some metal polish and it came out like a mirror. Then I clean up all the float bowls with some carb cleaner. Put it all back together and then the number 1 carb wasn't getting any fuel into the cylinder so I opened the drain and nothing came out. And I noticed 3 & 4 were now overflowing.... I know, I know, I should have polished those seat valves while I had it out.

So I took the carbs back out of the bike and opened up number 1 and it had no fuel and the float was way higher than the other. I guess I got a bunch of carb cleaner on the float needle and the rubber part swelled up so it was blocking the passage. And the passage plug got soaked and just fell apart. I think this is a case of "too much of a good thing". Then the bowl gaskets fell apart.

So I ordered 4 new gaskets, a pack of passage plugs, and a new float needle from vintagecb750.com. Hopefully it gets here soon. Otherwise they are pretty clean, maybe that lemon juice did something after all.

http://imgur.com/OhD72LD
I added those tubes to the overflow to help me recognize problems more accurately and drain them more cleanly as needed.

While I am waiting on that I decided to flush out the front brake lines. The fluid was black as night. I proceeded to open the bleed valve and squeezed lever and I got a little bit out but right before the master cylinder was drained the lever went rock solid. I poured the remainder of the fluid out of the cylinder and the bottom was filled with sediment. Couldn't even make out the holes in the bottom. Spent 20 minutes working on it and it looked like this
http://imgur.com/Z8ez801

I pulled the lever and cylinder off the bike and cleaned it all and got some fluid flowing through it but the main brake line is clogged solid. I can't even get brake cleaner through the line and I'm not about to ram a wire through it all.

So I'm left without front brakes and no carbs... Better to find out now than on the road I guess......

PJ

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flogger
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:15 pm Reply with quote Back to top

You are making progress and doing a great job detailing your work... Did you get carb kits?
 
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pd750
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:01 am Reply with quote Back to top

djpj wrote:
Update



So I took the carbs back out of the bike and opened up number 1 and it had no fuel and the float was way higher than the other. I guess I got a bunch of carb cleaner on the float needle and the rubber part swelled up so it was blocking the passage. And the passage plug got soaked and just fell apart. I think this is a case of "too much of a good thing". Then the bowl gaskets fell apart.



PJ


Exactly why we recommend using brake cleaner and NOT carb cleaner .

Carb cleaner eats rubber . If that's a good thing ...

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djpj
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:38 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Flogger: I did buy a carb kit this time.

pd750: Brake cleaner? Brilliant. I had no idea.

I am going to go find some place to make me some new brake lines for the front. I can't believe they are clogged. I figured the pressure from squeezing the lever would push anything through. I'm going to test the master cylinder on another brake hose also.
Any advice on how to get the master cylinder apart to clean it better?

PJ

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Whozaa
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:10 pm Reply with quote Back to top

djpj wrote:
Any advice on how to get the master cylinder apart to clean it better?


The service manual shows how to disassemble it for cleaning and inspection.

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djpj
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:58 am Reply with quote Back to top

Update:

Master cylinder clean and flushed with new fluid. I'm having a local shop build some new brake lines for me.

Replaced the faulty float valve and all the gaskets and the carburetors don't leak any more. But now I think I have a dead cylinder number 2. I felt the exhaust and they were all super hot except number 2. It was slightly warm but I think that was just from the radiant heat of the other exhaust pipes.

I checked the drain on the float bowl and there's fuel in the bowl. I checked the spark with an inline spark tester and it flashed thoroughly. So I took some extra gas in a pipette and squirted it into the number 2 carb with the airbox removed and the engine smoothed out and the exhaust pipe got hotter. So maybe somehow the fuel isn't getting from the float bowl to the cylinder.

I know the jets are clear and the needle slides easily. The only thing I really changed on the that carburetor was it was missing the accel pump gasket and I replaced the float bowl gasket. Last time I had the carbs together the float needle in the number one carb wasn't letting in any fuel but the number two carb was working fine. Now the number one is working fine and the number two isn't.

Would anything with the accel pump (diaphram, gasket, etc) keep the fuel from flowing out of the float bowl? I don't think I did anything else to that carb from last time. This is frustrating.


PJ

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:56 am Reply with quote Back to top

I also replaced the passage plugs too because they were all old and hard. I wonder if I need to blow out the passage under the plug with some compressed air.

I don't think it's the float or needle valve because after I found the number two not working I swapped the float and needle valve with number one and I had the same problem.

PJ

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pd750
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:25 am Reply with quote Back to top

Sounds like a plugged idle circuit .

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Whozaa
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:30 am Reply with quote Back to top

It's hard to effectively spot-clean these carbs. You almost always have to break them completely down and do a complete thorough cleaning. I see that you found Sean's manual, but I don't know how much of it you did?

That, and you really need to have the airbox installed. These carbs run like crap without it. I know its a big pain to work with, but that's another reason to do a thorough carb cleaning the first time. So you don't have to keep messing with the airbox. Very Happy

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djpj
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:08 am Reply with quote Back to top

I didn't break the carbs completely down because I felt that was over my head for a first timer.
However, I did split the bank into pairs, soaked them in boiling lemon juice, cleaned the slides, cleaned the float bowl, cleaned the needle valves and seats, cleaned the jets.

The carbs were running just fine before but a few were overflowing. That's why I even wanted to tear them down.

I agree on keeping the airbox. I have no dreams of tossing it. I'm just trying to get the fuel into the number 2 cylinder first then I can reassemble everything. It didn't work with the airbox attached after the first try and it hasn't changed since I removed it. Also, the other cylinders are still getting fuel.

PJ

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pd750
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:20 am Reply with quote Back to top

pd750 wrote:
Sounds like a plugged idle circuit .

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djpj
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:33 am Reply with quote Back to top

pd750,

I read you. I'll try and run some cleaner and wire through the whole thing. Any suggestions?

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pd750
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:41 am Reply with quote Back to top

Do not use carb cleaner .

Brake cleaner cuts the crud quicker , leaves no residue and doesn't eat 'rubber'.
Follow that with a good amount of compressed air . Insure that ALL passages are clear and flowing freely .

Always wear safety glasses when ever working with chemicals .

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Whozaa
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:45 am Reply with quote Back to top

There's a spot in Sean's manual where he describes poking an E guitar string down through the idle jet. There's a certain depth that the string has to pass before the jet is cleared. Make sure you can get that depth.

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djpj
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:49 am Reply with quote Back to top

Ya. I heard brake cleaner works better and that blows my mind. I have an air compressor and I keep it set at 40 psi, that should work fine.

PJ

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genesound
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:32 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Idling poorly is generally a plugged idle fuel circuits and fuel jets or small air passages and air jets. This is mostly caused from fuel "phasing" which is basically the unequal evaporation of different chemicals in the fuel, which makes a residue that stiffens like a varnish and closes up the openings in passages over a time. The newer e-fuels are really bad about it, as well as they are hard on the rubber parts causing them to oxidise and fall apart, or swell excessively, then shrink and leak.

There are little passages all over the insides of the carb bodies and tops, so they really need to be soaked and agitated to get cleaned. Poking the wire helps during this process, so the solvent gets into the holes. There are high tech cleaners that work, but Awesome from the "99˘ Only" stores works real well. Other budget stores carry Awesome now too. Fantastik or Formula 409 should also do it, they're similar, though they're a bit more expensive. Be sure to keep an eye on the carb body color, some chemicals can cause them to discolor and look different. Also be aware some chemicals can cause Aluminum to oxidise and make a white powder dust form after it dries, so be very careful what you use, and be sure to rinse them off very well in clean water afterwards, and do a couple of rinse "cycles"

The tips of the needle valves used for the float bowls get hard, and the needles get sticky when the carbs sit, so they overflow or don't fill. Not only that, but most of the aftermarket ones that are on the market are shit, and don't even fit right, or the tips fall off, or the plating doesn't stick, they're too long or many different issues with them, so it's really best if you must have new ones to get the real ones from the dealer for $20 ea.

Also there are little thin o-rings that go on the pipes that connect the fuel rails between carbs that will fail after this many years and will need replacing sooner or later, and numerous other rubber pieces.

Viton rubber parts are best if you can get them, as they stand up to the temperature and chemicals the carbs have to handle nowadays.

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Contains SITE RULES, how to enter required bike information in your signature, thread and picture posting...
Also some important DOHC wrenching tips, and some other information, shop manuals.
Kindly read this linked thread with the rules before posting
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djpj
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:51 am Reply with quote Back to top

Update:

Front brake lines are all put together and new fluid in them. Makes a big difference.

Checked the fuel level in the bowls and it's all good
http://imgur.com/3IcOkia

Then I sync'd them with a home made manometer. Took some brass and put some threads them to mount them to the engine.
http://imgur.com/oHRhSuJ
http://imgur.com/rD1FKk2
http://imgur.com/6d8g2fs

I didn't have the idle set right and it just sucked up the oil at first but once I got it set to about 1200-1300 the vacuum evened out and made things a lot easier. A little hookie but it works.

Carbs are running good but I think the idle mixture is too lean. It will stay idling higher for a few seconds and then come down, it has a short hiccup for a tenth of a second when applying throttle, the idle speed has to be adjusted once the engine is up to speed. So that'll be fixed next. I originally set the mixture screws to 3 turns out. It feels pretty close to what it needs.

http://imgur.com/teCwOwJ

Got the bike inspected and it passed somehow. I blew out a fork seal on the way to the inspection station. I think what happened was the forks didn't have air in them when I got it and so I added about 12 psi to it. When I started driving it the added preload must have just been too much and forced some fluid past the seal.
http://imgur.com/ZQVzkAn

So I get to change the fork seals and I might as well add some progressive springs while I'm at it. I've never done either but I have found some good step-by-step instructions for it. And if I'm doing the front I'll have to find time/money for the rear also.

New to do list:
Adjust idle mixture
Adjust throttle cable
Find a shifter rubber cover
Replace fork seals and springs
Get plates on it.

PJ

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genesound
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:19 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, the seals need to be in very good condition to hold air. They should be in that good of condition even if they didn't need to hold air pressure though, just to continue working properly.

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NMT - New Member Thread, a Must Read, click here!!! - Information For New and Veteran Members.
Contains SITE RULES, how to enter required bike information in your signature, thread and picture posting...
Also some important DOHC wrenching tips, and some other information, shop manuals.
Kindly read this linked thread with the rules before posting
pictures or asking lots of questions that are already answered in it.

ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
81 CB900C, 83 CB1000C. 
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djpj
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:25 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Update:

Ordered some Progressive springs and some All Balls fork seals and dust seals. Should be here soon, I ordered them from Amazon.

Couple questions:
1. Does the spacer come with these springs.
2. If not, what size length and diameter will I need?
3. If so, does it need to be cut down?

I plan on putting the springs in with the tighter coils up top and I won't have to adjust the fork oil to compensate.

4. Just regular ATF - Dexron style?
5. What can I replace the air-assisted fork caps with that would allow me to remove the air hose? Any caps that will swap?
6. Am I missing/forgetting anything?

Thanks.

PJ

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:19 am Reply with quote Back to top

You'll love the progressive springs. Depending on where you bought them, they may come with a piece of PVC that you can you down to size as well as a couple washers, but when I ordered mine, the spacer diameter was too wide and I had to go buy my own. PVC works great for that, as well as zinc coated washers. Measure the old springs - the spacer length should be long enough so that the new springs + the spacer match the old springs (long enough that your caps are a pain in the arse to put on)

As far as fork oil, don't use ATF (you can, but why would you?) Get 10w fork oil (or whatever weight you choose) The difference is that you can experiment with different weights for different dampening. Since ATF doesn't have a specified weight, you're sort of stuck.

As far as fork caps go, search for "Mike Nixon Fork" here on the forum. I hear his caps are great.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:45 am Reply with quote Back to top

100%

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